- Dear Jeff -
- Please post this transcript of a recent talk given by
KIHURA NKUBA, an African radio broadcaster and a phenomenal human being
for his humor and courage in the face of a heavyweight attempt to eliminate
him for exposing what looks like another genocide of African children.
You have to hear the tape to appreciate this heroic individual's sense
- A Transcript of a talk given by Kihura Nkuba at
- the National Vaccine Information Center'sThird
- International Public Conference on Vaccination
- November 7-9, 2002 - Arlington, Virginia,
- aired on C-Span 2 on November 7, 2002.
- Contact Kihura Nkuba through
- Barbara Loe Fisher at
- The National Vaccine Information Center
- 421-E Church Street
- Vienna, VA 22180
- phone: 703-938-0342
- fax: 703-938-5768
- INTRODUCTION by Barbara L. Fisher:
- We're now going to look at oral polio vaccination conducted
in Africa. Our next speaker, known in the pan-African world as Kihura Nkuba,
which means "one who handcuffs lightning and puts thunder in jail",
is founder of Greater African Radio and president of the East African World
Broadcasters Association, and director of the Pan-African Center for Strategic
and International Studies. Several years ago he began hearing from villagers
who were being subjected to repeated forced live oral polio vaccinations
despite reports of injuries and death among the children. On his radio
program he began to speak out and questioned the safety of giving the children
- especially children with HIV - so many live oral polio vaccinations,
rather than giving them the safer "killed" polio vaccine used
in the U.S. and Canada. Since that time, he tells me, he has been persecuted
by the government, World Health Organization and UNICEF, and his radio
station has been driven into bankruptcy. Kihura is appearing here at great
personal and professional risk to tell his story. It is my great honor
and privilege to introduce you to the recipient of the National Vaccine
Information Center's humanitarian award - my good friend and colleague,
- KIHURA NKUBA: I am indeed very honored to be here and
to have been invited by Barbara Fisher and Cathy Wiliams to come and tell
my story, which is also my people's story. Normally, when they ask you
to come and speak, you sit there and think of what's the first word that
you'd say, but in listening to my brother Sunny Bates and Karen Forschner
and Stanley Kopps (sp?) I was [unintelligible] and I was saying 'My God,
if they can do this here in one of the most powerful countries on Earth,
what will happen to me - what will happen to us ? If they can do that in
the United States, then you know when it comes to other countries like
Africa and Asia and South America, our chances are pretty slim.
- I did not start off as being a campaigner for other peoples'
rights and polio. I am a pan-Africanist, and by that I mean I believe in
equality of thought and practices that are rooted in the best interests
of African people. I spent most of my time in England teaching film and
television, and also running pan- African conferences for so many African
people that live in the Diaspora to mobilize them to go and do some work
in Africa. And by then eventually, I remember it was at a conference in
Manchester and somebody said to me 'You keep telling us about helping Africa,
and however much you feel it's about swimming, one day you have to remove
your clothes and jump into the water. Why don't you go to Africa yourself
- And at that time my wife and I decided to borrow money
and raise some, and go and set up a radio station. And we thought of a
radio station because I believe that just one person with a microphone
and a radio can teach more people than a professor in a good university.
So I started Great African Radio in 1999 and, like most radio stations
that you find in Africa, we decided to broadcast in African languages and
record African music and talk about issues that concern people, like growing
food and storing grain and eating fruit and drinking clean water; and sanitation,
and all the other issues that were really not (trained) into most of the
urban stations that broadcast music.
- And on this program I ran a program that we call African
metaphysics every night, and some people call it the hour of truth. It's
a one and a half hour program where I talk about literally anything I wish.
And it became so popular that people started organizing in theatres, in
assembly halls, in churches and mosques, and they paid to have me go and
speak there. So it was in one of these lectures I gave in one small town
- and normally before I go, because there is so much interest in my lectures,
there is like minders and people who do crowd control, and they hide me
somewhere, and they introduce me last minute so that people don't see me
before they have paid.
- Now, when I was in one of those hideouts, I sat with
a preacher who started telling me a story of 1997 during the National Immunization
Days. In 1996 the government of Uganda introduced what they call National
Immunization Days. For those of you who don't know Uganda, Uganda is in
East Africa. It is at the foothills of the Mountains of the Moon just where
River Nile begins. And according to paleontology, archeology, molecular
biology, it is one of the countries that is said to be the source of humanity
because now I think everybody agrees that humanity, from the stage of Australopithecine
to Homosapiens, started in Africa - according to UNESCO anyway. So - and
it is governed as a democracy - quote, unquote - not that it's not a democracy
like you've got here. It's just that I'm always very skeptical when I hear
the word 'democracy' mentioned. So they have a parliament. They have a
president who is elected by all those that can vote and then they have
a parliament. And in the northern part of Uganda just in one district there
is some trouble by people who think they should have been president and
not they guy who is in charge.
- So I was told by this preacher that when the government
introduced the National Immunization Days in 1997, most of the children
after vaccination started dying. The preacher told me that they had so
much death that his cassock, that he wears to go and conduct the burial
ceremony, got old. He said "I buried the children and my cassock got
- In the same room there was one mother who had four children,
and she hid one and took three other children for vaccination, and three
children died and that one survived. Now when I went to do my presentation
and I asked most of the people who were there - about two, three thousand
people - each person had the same story.
- Now, in 1992 I believed that vaccination was a good thing.
I didn't know very much about vaccination like most people, and I thought
the doctors must really know what they are doing. So I thought vaccination
is a very good thing. But I had an argument with my wife who didn't want
my son to receive vaccinations. So I started reading about polio, and I
think I knew at that time that there were difficulties with the oral polio
vaccine, which I called 'polio Sabin'. So in this lecture I said "I
hope it's not the 'polio Sabin'". And that was just the one remark
I made. I said "I hope it's not 'polio Sabin'"
- Now all my lectures are broadcast every evening, so I'd
go before a crowd - I'd give a lecture and they'd broadcast it on radio
at night. And the following day the government sent people to me to ask
me about my remark - you know, what I meant about "I hope they're
not using the 'polio Sabin'." I didn't know that that was the polio
vaccination they were using in the country, because I think I had read
from literature from the National Vaccine Information Center - the small
consumer - I had a small book, the consumer guide, which must be one of
the most well-read books in Uganda because everybody wanted a copy of it,
including the health officials from the government. So they came to me
and asked me - they said "What did you mean by 'you hope it's not
polio Sabin'?" I said "Well, I hope it's not polio Sabin because,
according to the information I have, it was stopped in America in 1996
because it was a cause of polio in America." And they said "Really
? There's no polio in America." I said "Yeah ?" The health
officials told me they weren't vaccinating in America, and I said "No,
that's not true. I know they vaccinate in America." They said "No,
because they eliminated wild polio over there." I said "What
do you mean wild polio ?" They said "Well, there's two types
of polio. One is wild and one is domestic." So I said "O.K. Of
these two polios, which one are you trying to eliminate in this country
?" They said "We're trying to eliminate the wild polio so you
can have the domestic polio because the domestic polio can be controlled."
And I said "Why don't you leave the wild polio in the bush ? Why do
you have to bring it - why do you have to go and fight wild polio to introduce
it in the house ? At least if it is out there then you know at least it's
not threatening inside the house ?"
- But anyway, soon after that, articles started appearing
in the newspapers about myself, and they claimed that I was not really
interested in my people - in African people, and that to demonstrate that,
I had married a white wife - that I had all my children locked up in England,
and they had been vaccinated, and I had stopped them coming to Africa because
if they came to Africa they'd probably pick up some disease. Now all this
was unfortunate for them because at the time my wife was in Africa and
my children; and with all due respect, my wife was not white, but they
tried to show that really I hated (African) people so much that I couldn't
even marry somebody from them.
- Now then at that time, the parliament of Uganda, the
Minister of Information, the minister in charge of (the) presidency, started
writing the attorney general to close the radio station because I was broadcasting
anti-government messages. And they sent me civil intelligence to come and
interrogate me. At that time they were saying it wasn't really polio they
were interested in. It was that I had anti- government views and I was
plotting to overthrow the government. Fortunately the intelligence officer
who came to interrogate me proved to be very intelligent. When I told him
that really the polio (vaccine) they were using in Uganda was discontinued
in America because it was the sole cause of polio. And according to the
information I had, there was really no polio in Uganda. There had been
no polio. I grew up to be twenty five. I didn't see anybody with polio.
I started seeing polio when I went to the cities where polio vaccination
had taken place. And the more they challenged me, the more I started digging
about polio, you know, to educate myself and stand ready to go to court
or to be charged. And then what the intelligence officer recommended to
government was (that they) bring health officials to debate me at the radio
station so that if I was telling lies, then they should come and expose
me before my very audience. To this the Minister of Health, who was backed
by UNICEF, the United States Agency for International Development and the
World Health Organi- zation, said that really it shouldn't be like this.
I shouldn't debate polio because I'm not a scientist. Now I have been a
broadcaster for more than fourteen years, and all I was saying was not
that people should not go for vaccination, but that if they are to go for
vaccination, if there is a vaccine that is deemed to be safe, then that's
what they should use. And then by a stroke of good luck somebody brought
me an insert that comes with the polio vaccine, and it was from Pasteur-Mer????
a French company that manufactures the polio vaccine, and that was the
one that was used in 1997 when children started dying in large numbers.
And when I looked at the contra-indications it stated that inactivated
polio vaccine and not oral polio vaccine should be used in situations where
families had HIV - where there was a history of HIV in the family. And
when I got this information I was really shocked because since 1984 Uganda
has had a very difficult HIV and AIDS problem. In fact it says that if
a child is inadvertently given the oral polio vaccine, that that child
should be quarantined for four to seven weeks because oral polio vaccine
is "live" and they keep shedding it between that period, and
they could contaminate other people. So I was saying here is the manufacturer
who is writing for anybody who could read English that please do not give
this oral polio vaccine to population that have HIV and here is the Ministry
of Health which, in its own wisdom, says this has to be used here.
- So, armed with this insert from the manufacturer, I decided
to install wireless internet in the radio station and also to see what
other people were saying. At that time one of the main advisors to the
government of Uganda was the Centers for Disease Control - one of the most
respected agencies in the world. So I tried to see what the Centers for
Disease Control was saying about this oral polio vaccine, which should
not be used according to the manufacturer, and the Centers for Disease
Control was even more clear than the manufacturer. In fact, this is what
it says. It says that persons who have congenitally acquired immune deficiency
disease -e.g. combined immune deficiency, blah, blah - should not be given
oral polio vaccine because of their substantially increased risk for vaccine
associated disease. Now, they continue: they say "inactivated polio
vaccine and not oral polio vaccine should be used to vaccinate immunodeficient
persons and their household contacts." So I said if this is the Centers
for Disease Control which is advising the government of Uganda, and it
is saying we should not use oral polio vaccine, and here is the manufacturer
saying oral polio vaccine should not be used, now why should oral polio
vaccine be used here ?
- And then at the time, because of the heightened tension
that the Minister of Health was bringing to bear on the radio station,
then other people started throwing their own questions. And they went like
this : In Africa polio does not kill anybody and they say it's very rare
to catch. It's really very rare to get paralytic polio. They say it's in
very rare circumstances, so what is it that is killing people in Africa
? Malaria. Every five seconds a child is dying of malaria in Africa. Now
to get the dose of life-saving anti-malaria is about $5 but there is no
government to give anti-malaria. When somebody gets malaria, if they have
no money they even die. So the question I was asking and many people were
asking was 'If you really want to help children, why begin with a disease
that they don't have ? (applause) Why not look for something that is killing
them and save them from what is killing them ?' And then (inaudible) .............
'you know what, I like you very much. I save your children from this killer
disease. Now there are no other diseases apart from this rare polio, so
let's go and fight that as well.' But you don't begin with the rarest disease
and spend all the government's meagre resources fighting polio, which is
not a threat to most people, and then ignore something that is killing
them in large numbers like malaria, like AIDS, like cholera, issues to
do with sanitation, stunted growth - all the main things that matter to
people the government was not fighting. So what they decided to do was
to appeal to the president and say... and the president says to them 'What
you could do is go and take him to court and if the court decides that
he's giving false information, then charge him with sedition which carries
and death sentence or a life sentence.' So when they told me this I said
'Well, if I am to die' - I think there is an American poet called McCain,
and he had a poem which was "If I Am To Die". So if I was to
die, I did not want to take anybody with me, but I really have to give
people a run for their money. So I decided to use the experience that I
had gained in broadcasting and research for over 14 years to research everything
that I could find out about polio to prepare myself for the ultimate challenge
if I was to go to court.
- I discovered that really the whole concept of vaccination
is like getting a disease, putting it in an undiseased person to cure a
disease that person hasn't got. It's like if you have an army and it's
fighting an enemy, and then you bring the enemy into the barracks just
to see if the soldiers can defend themselves should an enemy surprise them.
I mean, you don't do such things in a war. And then I started asking myself
- humanity has lived in Africa for 5.5 million years from the stage of
Australopithecines to Homo sapiens. Polio vaccination in Uganda started
in 1963. So if we were all to die of polio like the Minister of Health
was telling us, we would have died by 1963 and it would have been 'case
closed'. There would have been nobody to vaccinate. So the fact that we
have survived 5.5 million years without polio vaccination shows that people
can survive without it. (applause) And if really somebody is that desperate
for the vaccine, then let's look for a vaccine that - you know - somebody
says 'This is safer than the other.' Because the manu- facturer who should
know more than the Minister of Health that we have, or the World Health
Organization, says 'Do not use this in this country.'
- Now, when they wrote to the attorney general and the
attorney general asked me to come and make my representation, and I went
to the attorney general and gave him my views of what I thought of inactivated
polio vaccine - and basically my case was simple. This oral polio vaccine
was discontinued in America. Why ? Because it's a cause of polio, and you're
telling me that the minister of health here wants to (use it) to stop polio.
You don't stop polio by bringing something that causes polio, and giving
it to people. You stop polio by bringing something that will prevent it.
That was my first argument. The seond argument was - the manufacturer says
don't use it, and since the minister of health and myself are not manufacturers,
we have to wait for that time when the manufacturer says 'Use it'. And
the attorney general says 'O.K. I don't think he can be prosecuted.' And
he wrote to the minister of health and the minister of information and
said 'I think you have a weak case. If you took this person to court you'd
probably lose.' So what they decided to do then was to use what they call
the broadcast council, and the broadcast council is the one that gives
licenses for broad- casters. So you couldn't broadcast without the broadcast
- I have to say that at that time every government minister,
every member of parliament was talking about the radio station as how we
are misleading the public - giving false information - really they were
calling me a child killer and everything, and most of my advertisers completely
fled, because in Uganda 80% of the advertisers is the government anyway.
And the government was not going to advertise with the radio station that
was giving it that trouble. So the broadcast council then wrote to me saying
that I was giving information that was deemed to be anti-government and
anti-people, and they were going to withdraw the license. In fact, to back
their words up, the minister of information came to the council hall where
the radio is based with soldiers and the police and local counselors and
district medical officers, and they called me and he had a pen in his hand
and he said 'This is what I want you to do. I want you to go on radio tonight
on your popular program and tell people that polio Sabin is safe - that
they can have it and that you support it. If you don't do this I am going
to sign, recommending that your radio station be closed, and by tomorrow
you won't be on air. I looked at the handsome minister if information in
the face and I said "Go to heaven and stay there" because I was
not going to do such a thing. (applause) I did not believe that oral polio
vaccine was safe and I was not going to tell anybody to mislead the public
that it was.
- So when he left I expected the radio station to be closed,
and what I did is I went off air. I stopped broadcasting my program voluntarily.
So I stopped the broadcasting. So what happened was really a revolution
because people waited for my program to come, and what they did - they
decided to come to the radio station and mount a vigil - and before long
I had over ten thousand people at the radio station - taxi drivers threatening
to block the road - I had riots in almost every town demanding that my
program come back on air. And at that time information had gone (out) that
the government was really raining down on me because of oral polio vaccine,
and that's what upset people. They said 'What's in polio (vaccine) that
you really want to give to us ? When we want clothes, you can't give us
clothes. When we want education you can't give us education. When our children
die you can't give us coffins or even come and assist us. Why are you forcing
polio (vaccine) on us ? If it's so good why can't we see the benefit of
it ?" You know because it was their children dying. And then they
started narrating all these stories..... At the main hospital in Mbarara
during that month of 1977 more than 600 children had died following polio
vaccination. 600 children ! So even some of the timid medical practitioners
who were initially afraid to come out, started coming out giving information
and saying 'Oh, we knew this oral polio vaccine was trouble because as
soon as the child receives it, they get a temper- ature and their health
goes downhill and there is nothing that you could do.' So the mothers said
they would not take their children for oral polio vaccination. And this
information was going back to the government at the capitol. So what the
government decided to do was to say let's send a team of experts to come
and debate me at the radio (station) on my program. I have to tell you
that on that day in the month of July - I think July 22nd - some date like
that - all the town sold out of radios and mobile phones because they were
ready to ring inside the radio station and tell the doctors that really
it should be their choice to decide what is given to their children, and
it shouldn't be the choice of the doctors (applause); and that whether
they agreed with me or not, that both sides should present their information
to the parents so that the parents can make a choice. Now I thought that
these doctors were going to come with thousands of books and evidence and
references, and I spent two weeks preparing myself. I ordered books from
Australia and Britain, and Barbara sent me some literature, and I didn't
sleep for almost a week. I was reading day and night trying to educate
myself about immunity - how the body's immunity works. I was trying to
educate myself about viruses jumping species and immuno-suppressive treatments,
and I learned about - for example - the Marburg virus which appeared in
Germany in 1967 [unintelligible] from a [unintelligible] laboratory that
they were developing oral polio vaccine, and actually the monkeys had come
from Uganda. So the monkey viruses had jumped from - had been - some of
the viruses that lie dormant in some of these species for a long time -
if you take these viruses and put them in the human body, they could do
anything. And one of the things they did was to give Marburg, which is
a cousin to ebola. In fact, after reading that information I predicted
[what year ? N.S.] that there would be ebola in Uganda because of these
vaccinations, and there WAS ebola in Uganda a year after ! So they started
saying I was a prophet !
- So when they came, here am I in the studio thinking 'God
! These are the real experts. How am I going to handle them ? I'm just
a broadcaster - somebody who has questions that any right-thinking member
of the society should ask.' And when they came they were more scared than
I was, and they started saying 'You know, we really apologize because...
one of the leaders of the team of the district medical officer said 'You
know what ? I have never read even a medical journal since I left medical
school. We have no internet. I cannot afford to buy new books. How would
I know what is safe or what is not ? All I know is that the World Health
Organization says it's safe. UNICEF says it's safe, and all these other
agencies say it's safe. So if it is safe then we must use it.' and then
my first question was 'Well, why didn't the World Health Organization say
it was safe for America to use ? Doesn't the jurisdiction of UNICEF extend
to America. If they stopped it in America why should we use it here ?'
And people were saying to them 'O.K. - you are the physicians. You studied
the same things as the physicians who manufactured this vaccine.' And they
said 'Yeah. You know, when you are a physician you don't want to say No,
I didn't study that. I'm sorry - I went to school but I didn't study what
you studied.' They said 'Yeah, we did. We studied exactly the same thing.'
And I said 'O.K. Why do we have to import the vaccine anyway ? Why can't
we manufacture the vaccine here if you know what goes in it ?' And they
said 'Oh, that's a problem. We don't have factories.' And then people were
ringing in to the studio asking - 'We had our own way of ensuring our childrens'
immunity. You know, when a child was born there was an assortment of herbs
that were collected from the wild, and then they were boiled, and every
day the child would bathe in these herbs for six months, and a little bit
of the herbs would be given to the child to drink.' And it was in this
debate that most of the physicians admitted that that method was as effective
as the immunization that was being carried out. So people were saying 'Well,
if we have this method that had proved very good for us all this time,
why are you giving us oral polio ? And why are you not fighting the diseases
that affect us ? And most significantly : where are all these so-called
paralyzed people - all our people that are physically challenged - that
you said existed in villages ?'
- And at that time we had marshalled the people that had
contracted polio after immunization, and they were in the studio with us.
In that debate most of the people that had come to debate us ran out of
the studio, and they could not answer the questions from the people. And
the national newspapers splashed these headlines so that even in other
parts of the country where my radio station was not reaching started picking
up the story. The World Health Organization got worried. UNICEF got worried.
UNICEF representatives came to the station to appeal to me, saying 'Well,
we know you have a case but you are giving it to the wrong audience. I
mean these people don't understand what you are saying. If you are talking
to people in cities - you know, people in villages - they cannot understand
the argument. Polio is good. O.K. it may have some difficulties, but why
don't you come and join us ? Then we will support you and give you more
advertising.' And... I didn't think it was an advertising issue. I thought
it was a moral issue at the time.
- But just for them to prove their case, one time I'm leaving
Mbarara, which is where my radio station was based, and I'm going to Kampala
- 250 miles away - and in my driving mirror I see two pickup trucks following
me. And they must have followed me for about 100 miles. I noticed it because
the two people that were driving were white, and there aren't a lot of
white people in that region. So when I saw them following me I stopped
- they slow down and overtake me and when I went back on the road I see
them again. I said I thought I was in trouble. So I reached the next town,
turned off my engine and waited for about two hours, and I thought I must
have lost them. So I jumped on the road again. I am driving full speed
- about maybe 120 MPH because I am late. I was going to get my son from
the airport and I had already lost two hours trying to avoid people who
were following me, and Lo and behold one of the pickup trucks is in my
driving mirror again. And I am going downhill and this guy comes and over-
takes me, gets in front of me and brakes. He had a big pickup truck and
behind there were bull bars (?) And the other pickup that is behind me
is also very close to my bumper. So I tried to avoid by going off on the
right side of the road. In Uganda they drive on the left - and he also
goes on the right side of the road. When I attempt to come back onto the
road my vehicle starts overturning and it must have overturned about 15
times. The vehicle was totally mashed up, and it was near a small town.
Everybody thought nobody could escape from that car. I thought I had died.
I was still breathing. I could hear myself breathing, but I thought I had
died. I looked at the mashed car and the smashed windows, and I thought
'Maybe heaven looks this ugly.' So eventually people came and they cut
the door, and I waited to see... because when it overturned it knocked
somebody who was on a bicycle, but the person didn't die. And it knocked
bannana trees . It was horrible. But I came out. When I stepped out everybody
started running. They thought it was a ghost walking - some kind of dead
man walking. So one of the people recognized me, and they took me to hospital,
and they found I had just sustained very minor injuries.
- So I knew that they were going to make their point and
they were going to make it very well. But at that time I think I had passed
the door of no return, and I could not take a step backwards. So the minister
of health knew that if they lost the debate it would be very difficult
for them. Because in speaking to Barbara I also understand that here you
follow a certain regime - like you give certain doses in certain years,
and after that it's finished. In Uganda or Kenya or Tanzania it's not like
that. You have what they call routine where your children keep getting
all these vaccines. And then they have National Immunization Days. It doesn't
care whether you go through the immunization or whether you were immunized
last year. You come this year and they still give you the same thing. So
for polio, for measles there is no end. It's that complicated.
- So what happened then was the government then decided
to say 'Well, those experts that came weren't really experts. They were
some kind of experts but they are not experts. And these are the experts
that are now going to come in the final debate on radio.' And I said 'O.K.
The experts can come because my questions are still the same.' So they
brought now a team of other experts which was supposed to be the final
team of experts, and when they came this was my first question : 'Tell
us - you say that this oral polio virus is attenuated, which means weakened.
What does that mean ?' And the guy says 'Well, it's not really a virus.
It's the jacket of a virus.' 'It's a live virus.' 'It's an attenuated live
virus.' And they started saying 'No, it's not a live virus. It's the jacket
of a virus.' Then another one said 'No no no' And this is live on radio
so the experts from the ministry of health are contradicting themselves
in a live debate listened to by more than 15 million people who for a long
time have trusted doctors as really people who should know everything about
vaccines. And one of them said 'No, it's not a jacket. You can't say it's
a jacket. It's just harmless.' O.K. well if it's harmless, and if the virus
goes into the body, it can do several things. It can lie dormant; it can
die, or it can become potent.
- And then people were ringing and saying 'What would you
call a virus in the local language ?' And one of the experts called it
a small animal, and that's where problems started because then another
caller would ring in and say 'Well, if it's a small animal, what does it
eat ? And if you don't give it food and it gets really hungry, what would
happen ? Won't it attack the body's immune system ?' Now you may find this
hilarious and laugh, but really those are deep philosophical questions
that scientists grapple with. When a virus gets in your body it can do
several things. It can die. It can sleep, or it can become potent or virulent.
And if that happens, then you have a problem. So this expert debate didn't
do the work, because what people were interested in was to hear why it
is possible that they cannot get the killed virus. And the answer was that
it would be too expensive - it would be too expensive to give the killed
virus to the population.
- And then the people said 'O.K. if it's too expensive,
we don't want the cheap one. We think at least we are worth five dollars
or ten dollars, or something like this. So if you can't bring the inoculated
polio virus, we are not going to have the oral polio.' And that's what
they did. But the government was ready for them - not really the government
- the minister of health, the World Health Organization and the UNICEF.
They mobilized the army, and the police and moved from house to house.
They had asked the local authorities to do a list of people who had children,
so they moved from house to house grabbing children at gunpoint and vaccinating
- Now those that knew - as soon as the army got into the
village - the rest of the people who had children would run into the bush,
and they stayed there for a week. And there is the story of this child
who was met on the road, and they grabbed him and asked him whether he
was immunized, and he said 'Yes'. He lied to them - said 'Yes' - He was
running away, but he said 'Yes' and they said 'Well, we still have to immunize
you anyway. So they got the (dose). They put it in his mouth and the child
spit it out - first time. They put it a second time (spit) - third (spit)
- fourth (spit) and then they hit the child and then the child ran away
unvaccinated. So it became a very difficult exercise, and the government
put all the blame on me. They said it must have been me who had learned
all these hypno-therapeutic techniques and had (majored ?) in psycho-cranial
therapies, and I was an agent of all these organ- izations abroad that
really do not believe in traditional medicine; and I had hypno- tized the
population so that they were not able to respond to government messages
on vaccination - something that was totally good for them. Now the thing
was - those that went for vaccination came immediately to report reactions,
and a good many of them lost their children. Those that did not go for
vaccination did not have the same reaction. So they would be ringing in
to the radio station and saying 'Well, I vaccinated my child and this is
what happened.' I know this is what was happening even before we started,
but they had no way of expressing themselves. They had no means. So at
this stage most people really got convinced that there must be a relationship
between having a history of HIV... I have to tell you HIV is very big in
Uganda - very big in East Africa. I was born in a family of eleven, but
from 1987 up to today I have lost eight members of my family through HIV.
So when the manufacturer says 'Do not give this vaccine to families that
have a history of HIV' there are no families in Uganda that have no history
of HIV. Everybody knows somebody who has died or has lost an uncle or a
brother's wife or his children through HIV. And it's that relationship
that people were able to put together saying 'Maybe really the oral polio
vaccine, when given to population that has HIV - when live vaccine is given
to a population that has HIV, it produces that reaction.'
- But for me, up to today, that is still the situation.
The oral polio vaccine in Uganda, northern Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi, Congo
and part of Kenya has become a hotly contested debate. Thousands of people,
during the National Immunization Days in the months of July and September,
go into the bush and stay there for weeks. The army and the police move
house to house looking for children to vaccinate. At the same time, things
that kill children like malaria, cholera, issues of stunted growth, sanitation,
are completely untackled.
- Now - last year I came to Washington to give a lecture
to the Voice of America, and I decided to ring the Centers for Disease
Control. Normally when I travel I record my travel and I do a travel program.
So I tell people what I'm seeing because I know the majority of my people
have no chance of travelling - so I describe the situation to them. And
I rand the Centers for Disease Control and they have a line of experts
that you can ask different questions. And I said 'I am living in America
and I want to go to Uganda, and my children have not received oral polio
vaccination. And they said 'No, they can't receive oral polio vaccination
in this country.' I said 'Why not ?' and they said 'Well, you can get polio
from oral polio vaccination.' And I said 'Is this the Centers for Disease
Control ?' and they said 'Yes'. 'Are you sure you are not the Centers for
Disease Uncontrol ?' They said 'No, we are the Centers for Disease Control
- the real McCoy.' So I said 'What if I have a history of HIV and I receive
oral polio ?' They said 'That would be really pretty dangerous. It could
be a death sentence.' (And I said) can I have your name ?' 'No, you can't
have my name. You can have a reference number.' I said 'O.K.' but I recorded
this, and when I went back I played it on radio. (applause) I said 'Well,
this is not me now. You can't arrest me. You have to arrest the Centers
for Disease Control, because, I mean, it's them doing the talking. It's
not me. I have just given them space on the radio !'
- So the minister of health said 'O.K. this is what we're
going to do. We're going to invite you and you'll come and sit with all
the experts from World Health Organi- zation, from UNICEF and the minister
of health, and we'll do a deal.' So what I did - I went to the website
of the Centers for Disease Control. I photocopied a big docu- ment on vaccine
reactions, and I took it with me. So I sat before the minister of health
and I said 'Well, before we can do any deal, I just want to see what our
very good friends from the Centers for Disease Control say about vaccine
reactions - particularly polio.' And the minister gave it to the head of
public health, and the head of public health looks at this document and
says 'This is not a genuine CDC document. This is from the internet.' And
I said 'So what ? It's from the internet - the CDC on the internet. This
is the 21st Century !' He said 'No, it's not.' And I said 'O.K. At the
bottom there is a number, and it says you can ring this number. Why don't
we ring the Centers for Disease Control ? Here is a mobile phone' And he
said 'No, we can't ring them. We wouldn't know if it was the CDC answering.'
So what do we do ? They said 'We'll send the document to the embassy and
ask the embassy to verify if it's a CDC document.' 'Oh' I said - 'Well,
you have an expert from the CDC in Kampala. Why don't you call that expert
to verify ?' He said 'No, he's sick. He's not available for verification.'
So I said 'O.K. I will do a deal with you only after you verify that this
is a genuine CDC document. We'll give each other 24 hours. You go and do
your verification, and then after that I'll come and we can deal.' 24 hours.
No reaction. One week - one month - I am still waiting.
- But in the meantime I had two radio stations. One of
them is now closed. I employed over 60 people. I am 6 months in arrears.
I can't afford to pay them. As I speak I have not a single advertiser on
my radio station that has an audience of more than 50 million. My radio
program, when it goes on air - even buses that carry people stop to listen
to my program for one and a half hours. And I have already told you that
people even pay to hear me speak. But I have taken a bank loan from England.
My house is up for grabs, including all my books and my videos and everything
- just for asking simple questions as 'Why don't you fight a disease that
kills people instead of one that has a theoretical risk of attacking them
? Why don't you deal with issues that people want you to deal with, and
maybe after you have dealt with that, then you can deal with oral polio
vaccine ? Why use a vaccine that was discon- tinued in America - which
is a technological nation where people should know - and you use it here
? Why at least can't you say to people "Pay for the killed vaccine"
so that they get the vaccine that, according to the manufacturer, would
be less harmful ?'
- That is my story. I am not opposed to vaccination. I
have not gone out to cause trouble for anybody. It's just I felt as a broadcaster
my job is to ask questions that my audiences would have asked had they
been in the same position that I was, or had the opportunity to meet the
people that matter. So - and that's what I did. Instead of giving me appropriate
answers, I was victimized. One government minister said the experts from
the ministry of health had carried out a study and they had found me mad
! And I said 'Well, if you say I am mad, I think you could say it's mutually
assured destruction, and definitely this poison would have mutually assured
us of destruction.' So in my own madness it seems I was the only person
that could stand in front of millions of people to ask legitimate questions.
- I know one thing - that people who have lost their children
as a result of taking oral polio vaccine will not be going for immunization
unless that policy is changed. I also know - I think if you go to the website
of the World Health Organization you'll find my name - you know they depict
me as this anti-polio campaigner and whatever, which I am not - But I also
know that the World Health Organization, UNICEF and all these agencies
are really looking for what they call victory - to vaccinate the last child.
And they are saying that right now the person who stands in front of them
- For more than six months I have not been on radio broadcasting
because I was involved in a conflict in eastern Congo - in the Democratic
Republic of Congo - and it was the center that I ran, called the Pan-African
Center for Strategic and International Studies that began the peace initiative
about a year ago that led to different peace accords that have been signed
to bring peace in this country. And one of the peace conferences was chaired
by myself for more than six months. Now I also know that the population
is not going to accept these oral polio vaccinations unless they change
to killed vaccine. But for the government and for the minister of health,
and all the other agencies, they will continue to look at me as the enemy.
I have been out of radio for this period of time, but still there is very
little people going for vaccination, and the government is pouring in more
money - millions and millions of dollars of meagre resources that a small
country like Uganda cannot afford. And most of that is really going into
misinformation - a campaign against me. That's my story. Thank you very
- PRESENTERS: The National Vaccine Information Center Third
International Public Conference on Vaccination Arlington, Virginia, November
- Major Sonnie Bates (Retired) - Anthrax Vaccine in the
Military. Retired military pilot who worked against the anthrax vaccine
policy in the military. This presentation will focus on his personal story
and the stories of other young U.S. military officers who reacted to and
then protested forced use of the anthrax vaccine.
- Karen Forschner- Lyme Disease and Lyme Vaccine: A Mother's
Perspective. Founder and president of the Lyme Disease Foundation, she
will talk about her investigation into the dangers of a Lyme vaccine she
helped to get developed after her son died of Lyme disease and how she
has fought to get the vaccine off the market after tracking the many adverse
events from the vaccine.
- Bernard Rimland, Ph.D. - Regressive Autism and Vaccination.
President of the Autism Research Institute, he will give a historical retrospective
of the changing face of autism and its association with vaccines. (Did
- Paul Shattock, O.B.E. - Measles, Chicken Pox and Neuroimmune
Dysfunction. An autism expert from Great Britain will review new data about
the association between the development of autism and exposure to live
measles and chickenpox viruses.
- November 8, 2002
- Boyd Haley, Ph.D. - Mercury and Brain Dysfunction. New
information will be presented about mercury toxicity and the role of the
vaccine preservative, Thimerosal in vaccine induced neuroimmune dysfunction
leading to developmental delays.
- Andrew Wakefield, M.D. - MMR, Enterocolitis and Autism.
A British gastroenterologist, will discuss new pathological findings documenting
that many children who develop regressive autism and chronic bowel inflammation
after MMR vaccination are suffering from persistent vaccine strain measles
- Paul Fawcett, Ph.D. - Lyme Vaccine and Neuroimmune Dysfunction.
A senior research scientist, will present new data about the biological
mechanism of Lyme vaccine-induced autoimmune and neurological dysfunction.
- Eric Hurwitz, Ph.D., D.C. - Vaccination and Allergic
Disease. Dr. Hurwitz will review the epidemiological and clinical evidence
that vaccines are one of the
- many genetic and environmental factors that have contributed
to significant increases in allergic disease, such as asthma in children.
- Walter Schumm, Ph.D.,- Anthrax Vaccine and Chronic Illness.
Dr. Schumm will present his published study on the experience of the Gulf
War veterans with anthrax vaccination.
- Kathryn Carbone, M.D. - Virus Vaccines and Neurovirulence.
Dr. Carbone will discuss the basic science research being conducted at
the Food and Drug Administration on neurovirulence testing for virus vaccines
that will help further the understanding of the biological mechanisms of
vaccine adverse responses.
- John Lednicky, Ph.D.. - Simian Virus-40 and Human Cancers.
Dr. Lednicky will discuss the relationship between simian virus-40, identified
in early polio vaccines and human cancers.
- Adil Shamoo, Ph.D. - Ethics and Conflicts of Interest
in Clinical Trials. Dr. Shamoo will review the ethics and conflicts of
interest in clinical trials and the use of human subjects.
- Barbara Loe Fisher - Keynote Address - As the president
and co-founder of the National Vaccine Information Center, she will discuss
the need for better and complete science into the biological mechanism
of vaccine induced injury and death. She will also discuss the right to
informed consent to vaccination.
- November 9. 2002
- Philip Incao, M.D. -The Paradigm Shift - An overview
of why a paradigm shift is occurring in health care as more families embrace
preventive health care options that do not rely so heavily on vaccination.
- Gerald Clum, D.C. The Role of Chiropractic in our Health
Care System. Dr. Clum will discuss the resurgence of interest in alternatives
to allopathic medicine and the role of chiropractic in preventive health
- Stephanie Cave, M.D. - Vaccine Injury Therapy: An Holistic
Approach. Dr. Cave will give an overview of the treatment protocol she
is using to help vaccine injured children, including the use of chelation
therapy to remove heavy metals.
- Sherri Tenpenny, D.O.- Vaccine Injury Therapy: An Holistic
Approach. Dr. Tenpenny along with Dr. Cave will discuss the therapy protocol
she uses to help vaccine injured children which includes osteopathy and
- Mary Megson, M.D. - Genetics, Vaccine Injury and Getting
Well. Dr. Megson will discuss her original work of the use of vitamin A
in helping children who have been injured by the dpt vaccine. Her work
focuses on genetic predisposition to vaccine injury.
- Mark Geier, M.D. -Vaccine Reaction Report Analysis. As
a geneticist and vaccine injury expert, Dr. Geier will discuss his published
analyses of data from the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System
(VAERS) in which he compares the reactivity of many of the mandated childhood
vaccines. His son David Geier will share the platform with him.
- Diana Cregar, B.S. - Using Technology to Map Vaccine
Adverse Events. This expert in technology will show how the use of emerging
technology and computer data systems can map the epidemiology of vaccine
- Sue Blevins, R.N., M.P.H., Technology, Privacy and Informed
Consent. President of the Health Freedom Institute, she will document the
alarming use of technology, including computerized vaccine tracking systems,
and the passage of recent laws which eliminate privacy and informed consent
protections in health care and human research.
- Katie Corrigan - Model State Emergency Health Powers
Act. A legislative expert from the American Civil Liberties Union will
discuss the threat to civil liberties posed by the Model State Emergency
Health Powers Act being passed in many states that allow public health
officials to use the state militia to arrest, quarantine and forcibly vaccinate
citizens without their informed consent.
- George Annas, J.D., M.P.H. - Bioterrorism, Public Health
and Civil Liberties. A leading ethicist he will discuss the latest scares
from possible use of bioterrorism and how it relates to the question of
informed consent, forced vaccination and quarantine.
- Jeff Thompson, Esq. - Vaccine Injury Compensation: Federal
and Civil. This leading attorney will review the need for amendments to
the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 to restore the spirit
and intent of the original law or a return to vaccine injury litigation
against vaccine manufacturers.
- Matthew Staver, J.D. -- Defending the Religious Exemption
to Vaccination. This presentation will defend the integrity of the religious
exemption to vaccination on the basis of the Constitution of the United
- Lynn Friedman, D.C. - Testimonial. Dr. Friedman will
discuss her pending case in New York federal court and will relate the
harrowing experience of trying to exercise her right to hold sincere religious
beliefs opposing vaccination.
- Michael Palmer, M.D. - Fatal: A Vaccine Thriller. Best
selling author will discuss why he wrote FATAL and what he learned during
his research into the science and politics of vaccination.
- [For some reason Kihura Nkuba is not on the presenters'
list, but is in the tape duplication service's list of tapes available
from the conference. (His
- tape is entitled "Polio Vaccine Campaigns in Africa
- # VACO2-3). Contact
- REPEAT PERFORMANCE - 2911 Crabapple Lane, Hobart, IN
- 219-465-1234 - Fax -219-477-5492
- Cassette Tapes available from Repeat Performance :
- O VAC02- 1
- "Anthrax Vaccinatlon In the Mliltary: One Pilots
Story", Major Sonnie Bates
- Anthrax Vaccine Testimonlal
- O VAC02- 2
- Lyme Dlsease and Lyme Vaccine: A Mother's Perspective,
- Forschner Lyme Vaccine Testimonlal
- O VAC02 - 3
- Pollo Vaccine Campalgns In Africa, Kihura Nkuba
- O VAC02- 4
- Regressive Autism and Vaccinatlon, Andrew Wakefield,
- Regressive AutismTestimonlal, Rick Rollens
- O VAC02- 5
- Measles, Chickenpox and Neurolmmune Dysfunctlon, Paul
- Questlons and Answers
- O VAC02- 6
- Mercury and Braln Dysfunction, Boyd Haley, Ph.D.
- O VAC02- 7
- MMR, Enterocolitis and Autism, Andrew Wakefield, M.D.
- Autism/MMR vaccine Testimonlal
- *VAC02- 8
- Lyme Vaccine and Neuroimmune Dysfunctlon, Paul Fawcett,
- *VAC02- 9
- Vaccinatlon and Allergic Dlsease, Eric Hurwitz, Ph.D.,
- *VAC02- 10
- Anthrax Vaccine and Chronic Illness, Walter Schumm, Ph.D.
- Vlrus Vaccines and Neurovirulence, Kathryn Carbone, M.D.
- *VAC02- 11
- SV40 and Human Cancers, John Lednicky, M.D.
- Smallpox and Smallpox Vaccine, Mark Geier, M.D.
- *VAC02- 12
- Ethics and Conflicts of Interest in Clinical Trials,
Adil Shamoo, Ph.D.
- *VAC02 - KN1
- Keynote Address, Barbara Loe Fsher
- Fund Raising Dinner: Truth and Consequences In Sclence,
- Andrew Wakefield, M.D.
- *VAC02- 14
- The Paradigm Shift, Philip Incao, M.D.
- Role of Chiropractic In Health Care, Gerard Clum, D.C.,
- Vaccine Injury Therapy: An Hoilstic Approach, Stephanie
- Sherri Tenpenny, D.O.
- *VAC02 -16
- Genetics, Vaccine InJury and Getting Well, Mary Megson,
- Questlons and Answers
- *VAC02 -17
- VAERS Vaccine Reactlon Report Analysis, Mark Geier, M.D.,
- Questions and Answers
- Using Technology to Map Vaccine Related Neuroimmune Illness,
- Cregar, B.S.
- Technology, Privacy and Informed Consent, Sue Blevins,
- Model State Emergency Health Powers Act, Katie Corcigan
- Bioterrorlsm, Pubilc Health and Clvil Libertles, George
Annas, J.D., MPH
- *VAC02 - 20
- Vaccine Iniury Compensation: Federal and Civil, Jeffrey
S. Thompson, J.D.
- *VAC02 - 21
- Defending the Religlous Exemptlon to Vaccinatlon, Mathew
- Faith and Vaccinatlon, Lynn Friedman, D.C.
- *VACO2 - KN2
- Dlnner; Mlchael Palmer, M.D., Author of FATAL, NY Tlmes
From Jim Phelps
- It is interesting to hear the problems with the Polio
Vaccine in Uganda. The effect the health services are missing is one involving
G-protein effects on antigen presenting cells due to vaccines that use
- It is clear that Kihura Nkuba is a good, honest, and
genuine person that is out to help the people of his country. He needs
to look at the effects of the vaccine kill media in combination with the
high fluorides in the food and water of his country. The G-protein fluoride-metal
complex information is the key to winning his debates on the safety of
- Uganda is already highly affected by diseases like HIV,
which is highly related to the high endemic fluoride levels in East African
countries and how the G-protein fluoride-metal complex shuts down the immune
systems defenses via damage to APC's and T-cells.
- When one brings vaccines into these countries this introduces
all manner of problems. The Salk vaccines can't be used because they typically
introduce so much mercury that kills the immune system further.
- The live viral Sabin vaccines cause problems with introduction
of the live polio virus and other endogenous viruses from the culture media
into a region with damaged immune defenses.
- It is very sad to see all these kids die because the
catch 22 from the vaccine damage via the G-protein effects on APC and T-cells
is so bad in these regions.
- It would appear that neither of these polio vaccine techniques
are safe in these areas.
- Jim Phelps