- Well, this is a rather shocking turn of events. I would
have preferred not to jump in here without due reflection, but nevertheless
I will toss out a few initial reactions and elaborate at a later time if
I can.
-
- First of all, I just can't believe this explanation of
the military combined with pharmas as being the prime mover behind aerosol
operations. So, I must ask myself immediately if it is because perhaps
I am afraid to believe it. And the answer is: certainly not. I wouldn't
put anything at all past the pharmas, or the Pentagon, or Bushes et al,
including genocide. My problem with believing this is that it does not
seem logical to me on several accounts.
-
- True, anything is possible. I do know that. But this
kind of random culling never was too high on my personal list of likely
explanations, and there is nothing said here which has changed my mind
about that. YET, anyway.
-
- By all means, please present something resembling a more
coherent rationale which makes some sense if we are to entertain this concept.
-
- If we look at the general trend of the military-industrial-political-etcetera
complex over the last fifty years, it is clearly toward ever more specific,
detailed and *micromanaged* control of human beings. There is no precedent
I can think of offhand which is anywhere near so sloppy and uncontrollable
an operation as that which you are describing. The techno-hell which has
been being perfected over the last decades indicates ever increasing precision
and targeted implementation of physical, emotional and mental control over
the population. Could you give some examples of broad-scale, scatter-shot,
catch-as-catch-can experimentation on a wide scale which would at least
give a small precedent for what you are asking us to accept here?
-
- What are we supposed to believe, exactly? The implications
here are rather obvious. You are saying that these casual murderers are
simply casting such a wide net that they are perfectly willing to kill
off whatever moves, including their grandma and their relatives and all
those large numbers of people who have already been brainwashed to support
them. OK. But then either many people are receiving all kinds of vaccines,
secretly, without any leaks, or...they aren't. Either way, it's rather
hard to believe.
-
- I perfectly realize that what you say here may be nothing
but the truth. Whether it is the whole truth and nothing but the truth
remains to be seen, and I as you can see, I honestly doubt it. Personally,
I have no agenda whatsoever in regard to what turns out to be true. As
far as I am concerned, whatever it is, we will deal with it as best we
can, just as we have been dealing with it all along. And that definitely
includes a scenario such as you have presented us with here. But I must
tell you what I think, as a friend and as someone who deeply respects all
the work you have done, that this scenario makes too little sense. It strikes
me unpleasantly that someone has perhaps put one over on you.
-
- I can't say I hope I am wrong and I hope you are right.
And I can't say I hope I'm right and you are wrong either. Because no matter
what, the chemical and electromagnetic alteration of earth's atmosphere
is already an unprecedented catastrophe- whatever the idiots motives might
be. After all, these operations are exceedingly harmful and deadly no matter
what, period.
-
- I have to consider that this would not be the first time
we have been presented with disguised rattus rattus dolled up and dangled
before us as a viable explanation, and it won't be the last. Therefore
I won't believe anything as illogical as this unless presented with far
more rational thought behind it than just a cursory "they are doing
this", accompanied by "I cannot say any more." Clifford,
you yourself would never simply believe such a presentation as this if
offered to you by someone else.
-
- It is also worth noting that the effect of our believing
this IF it turns out not true would be wonderfully convenient for the perpe-traitors,
would it not? How very pleased the psy-ops sots would be if a large percentage
of us believed, on the basis of no evidence at all, a version of this which
in retrospect made them look foolishly gullible due to lack of all corroborating
evidence. Naturally, if this information you offer turns out to be true,
then that would be another story. Still, one must objectively consider
all the alternatives- as usual.
-
- Clifford, as a person of rigorous scientific mentality
yourself, you will fully appreciate that as far as some of us are concerned,
to simply "believe" this because you said so would be intellectually
dishonest and therefore literally inconceivable.
-
- Diane
-
- Another thought
-
- If SARS is meant to target the Chinese, then what about
the high percentage of extremely valuable Chinese technical brains hard
at work in this country and elsewhere for both the pharmas and the military,
etc?
-
- They just receive vaccines without knowing what they
are?
-
- But there are far too many useful citizens of Chinese
extraction in all areas of productivity in the Western world for them to
be receiving covert vaccines all over the place. This makes NO sense to
me at all.
-
- Someone help me out here, and demonstrate how and why
this scenario might be plausible, because I can't see it.
-
- Diane
-
-
-
- Comment
-
- From Marjorie Tietjen
- 7-28-3
-
- Jeff,
-
- I agree with Dianne Harvey. I certainly believe there
is biological experimentation taking place on the public without our consent.
However, it seems to me that, as Dianne says , spraying entire countries
with biological warfare agents...whether to just test the substances or
whether it's to specifially harm us....is not a very direct or sure way
of accomplishing their supposed goal. Vaccines, flouride in the water supply,
infecting ticks and mosquitoes with genetically engineered viruses and
bacteria, etc, would seem to be more effective in targeting certain portions
of the population. Unless the "elite" all live underground, they
would also be affected by mass aerial spraying. Clifford's explanation
may be part of the picture but I really don't believe it explains the main
purpose of chemtrails. I suppose TPTB could concievably be vaccinated for
all these different microbes....but what about all the metallic particles,
polymers, barium, etc?
-
- Marge Tietjen
-
-
- Comment
-
- From J W h2opwrdme@yahoo.com
7-28-3
-
- As a very long time listener and reader of your information
I'd like to comment here.
-
- I have also observed possibly thousands of suspicious
trails from Santa Barbara to Las Vegas for about 6 or 7 years.
-
- Regards, JW
-
- Two Cents
-
- From Diane Harvey 7-27-3
-
- Well, this is a rather shocking turn of events. I would
have preferred not to jump in here without due reflection, but nevertheless
I will toss out a few initial reactions and elaborate at a later time if
I can.
-
- First of all, I just can't believe this explanation of
the military combined with pharmas as being the prime mover behind aerosol
operations.
-
- ** Why not? All one must do is look at the corporate,
administration, military, bankster, interconnections. Follow the money.
**
-
- So, I must ask myself immediately if it is because perhaps
I am afraid to believe it. And the answer is: certainly not. I wouldn't
put anything at all past the pharmas, or the Pentagon, or Bushes et al,
including genocide. My problem with believing this is that it does not
seem logical to me on several accounts.
-
- ** It seems entirely logical if you can imagine just
how evil and insidious are the dark, greedy, and controling forces at work
on this planet. They are the paramount of greedy humanists who will squeeze
every last nickle and drop of sweat and blood from the population as it
destroys what it wants to of human kind. Consider that these people are
told/hypnotized from the earliest possible age, ?You are the kings and
queens of the .world and it is you who control it by and for whatever means
you deem apprpropriate. And don?t forget to line your pockets when you
do ANYTHING!? **
-
- True, anything is possible. I do know that. But this
kind of random culling never was too high on my personal list of likely
explanations, and there is nothing said here which has changed my mind
about that. YET, anyway.
-
- ** I agree. We only have a good source in Clifford vouching
for the source of the claims. **
-
- By all means, please present something resembling a more
coherent rationale which makes some sense if we are to entertain this concept.
-
- ** The rational is the usual evil intentions that have
been operating here for eons. Greed, power, world control, ?survival of
the fittest,? decided by those who deem themselves the ?fittest,? in their
opinion. Didn?t ?god? or somebody select a certain age and gender for extinction
somewhere in history? Great examples set in that ol' bible huh? Why not
eliminate a few intelligent races that drive wasteful polluting, profitable
until death SUV?s and own guns? Or just most of the population of the most
populated country on earth for starters? These evil people are playing
'god' aren?t they? **
-
- If we look at the general trend of the military-industrial-political-etcetera
complex over the last fifty years, it is clearly toward ever more specific,
detailed and *micromanaged* control of human beings.
-
- ** This is not their exculsive form of control. Floride
is one of the first steps they took in their insidious mass hypnosis, drugging,
and profitable poisoning efforts. The strategy is like a hydra coming at
us from many directions. The sky included now. They certainly are micro
managing the public's response to the 'trails' and what the mainstream,
controled by the same people, press might say about the 'con'-trails. The
object of the mass hypnosis is to deny realty. Ever read the study of how
easy it is for 4 people to get one to deny the reality of what they see
right before their own eyes? Most Psych 101 classes review a study of how
when one unknowing person is told by four others in attendance that one
of four lines drawn on a board, that is clearly not the longest of the
lines, 'is the longest' As each of the four other peers say, "That
one is the longest," the last subject will deny what is right before
his eyes and agree when another line is clearly longer. This is the force
of opinions.**
-
- There is no precedent I can think of offhand which is
anywhere near so sloppy and uncontrollable an operation as that which you
are describing. The techno-hell which has been being perfected over the
last decades indicates ever increasing precision and targeted implementation
of physical, emotional and mental control over the population. Could you
give some examples of broad-scale, scatter-shot, catch-as-catch-can experimentation
on a wide scale which would at least give a small precedent for what you
are asking us to accept here?
-
- ** Floride, nicotine, aspartame, fast food, and a plethora
of legal and 'illegal' drugs. How many people are killed from misprescribed
medications? How many are dying of obesity related disease? **
-
- What are we supposed to believe, exactly? The implications
here are rather obvious. You are saying that these casual murderers are
simply casting such a wide net that they are perfectly willing to kill
off whatever moves, including their grandma and their relatives and all
those large numbers of people who have already been brainwashed to support
them. OK. But then either many people are receiving all kinds of vaccines,
secretly, without any leaks, or...they aren't. Either way, it's rather
hard to believe.
-
- ** I agree except we know about Raymond Rife's and other's
'cure all disease' technologies to which NO ONE with few exceptions has
had access for about 70 years. Rife's work and that of others, for the
last 70 years, if not longer, has been 'buried' by the people who are more
than capable of studying and developing it exclusively for THEMSELVES.
**
-
- I perfectly realize that what you say here may be nothing
but the truth. Whether it is the whole truth and nothing but the truth
remains to be seen, and I as you can see, I honestly doubt it. Personally,
I have no agenda whatsoever in regard to what turns out to be true. As
far as I am concerned, whatever it is, we will deal with it as best we
can, just as we have been dealing with it all along. And that definitely
includes a scenario such as you have presented us with here. But I must
tell you what I think, as a friend and as someone who deeply respects all
the work you have done, that this scenario makes too little sense. It strikes
me unpleasantly that someone has perhaps put one over on you.
-
- I can't say I hope I am wrong and I hope you are right.
And I can't say I hope I'm right and you are wrong either. Because no matter
what, the chemical and electromagnetic alteration of earth's atmosphere
is already an unprecedented catastrophe- whatever the idiots motives might
be. After all, these operations are exceedingly harmful and deadly no matter
what, period.
-
- ** Greed destroys. And technology is not always a good
thing. It just depends on who is using it for what means. **
-
- I have to consider that this would not be the first time
we have been presented with disguised rattus rattus dolled up and dangled
before us as a viable explanation, and it won't be the last. Therefore
I won't believe anything as illogical as this unless presented with far
more rational thought behind it than just a cursory "they are doing
this", accompanied by "I cannot say any more." Clifford,
you yourself would never simply believe such a presentation as this if
offered to you by someone else.
-
- It is also worth noting that the effect of our believing
this IF it turns out not true would be wonderfully convenient for the perpe-traitors,
would it not? How very pleased the psy-ops sots would be if a large percentage
of us believed, on the basis of no evidence at all, a version of this which
in retrospect made them look foolishly gullible due to lack of all corroborating
evidence. Naturally, if this information you offer turns out to be true,
then that would be another story. Still, one must objectively consider
all the alternatives- as usual.
-
- Clifford, as a person of rigorous scientific mentality
yourself, you will fully appreciate that as far as some of us are concerned,
to simply "believe" this because you said so would be intellectually
dishonest and therefore literally inconceivable.
-
- Diane
-
- ** I would presume Clifford took into consideration his
own credibility in his disclosing this item. But then again maybe he was
bribed or blackmailed into it for other psy-ops. I would say only time
will tell but who will be left here to write the history books when someone
actually learns the truth? **
-
- If SARS is meant to target the Chinese, then what about
the high percentage of extremely valuable Chinese technical brains hard
at work in this country and elsewhere for both the pharmas and the military,
etc?
-
- ** Sure should be easy to make a list of who to keep
around shouldn't it? **
-
- They just receive vaccines without knowing what they
are?
-
- ** "Coffee, tea, fruit juice at the meetig sir"?
'Ever wonder why no one takes any sick days around here'? **
-
- But there are far too many useful citizens of Chinese
extraction in all areas of productivity in the Western world for them to
be receiving covert vaccines all over the place. This makes NO sense to
me at all.
-
- ** Isn't the proposed 'managable' size of the New World
Order's population about 500 million? How many top chemists do you need?
1000? 10,000? 100,000? **
-
- Someone help me out here, and demonstrate how and why
this scenario might be plausible, because I can't see it.
-
- Diane
-
- ** A sufficient dose of the last 100 years of recorded
history watching the evil at work taking more and more control at all levels
of humanity is adequate for me. The case is clearly circumstantial not
scientific but tricks and magic are not scientific they are real and hidden.
This disclosure if true fits in nicely as part of the explaination. All
of the world's 'leaders,' both public and behind the scenes know that we
are on an unsustainable course of destruction of our biosphere and along
with this it?s unprotected mass mind controled dumbed down inhabitants.
These are the same families of the same bankters that made money by financing
both sides of WWI and WWII among others. They are the 1% of people in the
win-win positions with 99% of the rest of the humanity in a lose-lose position.
-
- Just my Two Cents.
-
- JW **
-
-
- Comment
-
- From CM Ross
- 7-28-3
-
- Dear Jeff,
-
- Thank you for your courageous work in exposing the truth
about chemtrails.
-
- I am in complete agreement with you and complete disagreement
with Diane Harvey on the subject of why chemtrails exist. Having studied
population control issues for 11 years now, I think that there is a commitment
by international leadership to dramatically lower the population by whatever
means at their disposal. Fluoride, abortion, aspartame, birth control,
vaccines, etc. are not enough. Former US Secretary of State Robert Mcnamara
said as much in an explosive interview in "Paris Match" several
years ago. Here is another of his quotes on it from 1979:
-
- "There are only 2 possible ways a world of 10 Billion
people can be averted. Either the current Birth rates must come down more
quickly or current death rates must go up. There is no other way. There
are of course many ways in which the death rates can go up. In a thermonuclear
age, Wars can accomplish it very quickly and decisively. Famine and disease
are nature's ancient check on population growth and neither one has disappeared
from the scene. To put it simply: Excessive population growth is the greatest
obstacle to the economic and social advancement of most societies of the
developing world." [emphasis added] (Robert Mcnamara, October 2, 1979).
http://www.africa2000.com/INDX/tukur.html
-
-
- It is too bad that Mcnamara did not notice that the densest
part of the USA is Manhattan at rush hour, where the people are, for the
most part, rich and well-fed; and that New Jersey, which is much more densely
populated than Red China, also has a much higher income than Red China.
My point: it's having more people that makes a wealthier population, not
fewer of them.
-
- At any rate:
- For more evidence of plans to greatly reduce the population
by disease, see:
- http://www.sweetliberty.org/nobarbarians1.htm and
- http://www.radioliberty.com/pca.htm
-
- Consider this quote:
-
- "In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like
to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve
overpopulation" HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh at a lecture
in 1986
- http://www.propagandamatrix.com/prince.html
-
- When the husband of a reigning sovereign is permitted
to make remarks of this sort and is not shouted down for them, it makes
you wonder if there is more to chemtrails and the strange deaths of microbiologists
like David Kelly than meets the eye.
-
- This article at http://www.mercola.com/2001/sep/8/mycoplasma.htm
demonstrates that the Canadian Government tested the dropping of carcinogens
on the people of Winnipeg, Manitoba in 1953. As far as I know, the people
of Winnipeg were not consulted as to whether or not they wished to be human
guinea pigs for the experiment. This article mentions that the subways
of New York were tested, too:
-
- http://gslc.genetics.utah.edu/features/biowarfare/
-
- Can you imagine the government telling the people of
New York: "Oh Hi folks, we're going to do a few little harmless biowarfare
tests on you. Nothing to worry about, you understand." I don't think
so. And the same holds true for chemtrails.
-
- As for the notion that they are not targeting the Asian
race, I am sure they are. Birth control was originally known as race control.
Obviously, birth control and abortion have not worked as well as they had
hoped in China and the rest of the world, or else AIDS would not be decimating
Africa, now would it?
-
- Keep up the good work,
- Miss CM Ross
-
-
- Diane Harvey replies...
7-28-3
-
- Jeff, I would like to reply to these comments, if I may...
-
- From J W h2opwrdme@yahoo.com
7-28-3
-
- As a very long time listener and reader of your information
I'd like to comment here.
-
- I have also observed possibly thousands of suspicious
trails from Santa Barbara to Las Vegas for about 6 or 7 years.
-
- Regards, JW
-
- Two Cents
Comment From
Diane Harvey
7-27-3
-
- Well, this is a rather shocking turn of events. I would
have preferred not to jump in here without due reflection, but nevertheless
I will toss out a few initial reactions and elaborate at a later time if
I can.
-
- First of all, I just can't believe this explanation of
the military combined with pharmas as being the prime mover behind aerosol
operations.
-
- JW - Why not?
-
- DH - **Such a message simply doesn't make sense to me,
as it contains nothing to go on with. Many of us have been basing our reasoning
over the years on the outstanding research we have had access to. We do
canít accept fiat pronouncements as standing in for evidence and
even good theorizing. If those behind this message wish to present their
excellent theories supporting this document, then they ought to do just
that. Meanwhile, it seems to me that we have, collectively speaking, a
reasonably detailed notion of the many quite nastily specific ways in which
we are farmed, manipulated, steered, milked and in general done in. In
my opinion, and in the opinion of many others, there has never been any
significant collection of evidence that aerosol culling by disease happens
to be one of them. It could very well be true, as I said. I would not dream
of claiming to know the intimate details behind the ìreal truthî
about chemtrails. I claim only to know that the atmosphere of earth is
being altered chemically and magnetically, and most likely for military
reasons. If there is another answer, then by all means let us see it. We
have, so far, no large body of evidence tilting the entire aerosol edifice
in the direction of deliberate murder, as we have for some of the other
favored theories. Therefore my sole point is ONLY that we cannot be asked
to toss caution to the winds and merely believe mysterious communications
from invisible sources.**
-
- JW - All one must do is look at the corporate, administration,
military, bankster, interconnections. Follow the money.
-
- DH - **Yes, it is very easy to say 'Follow the Money'.
But have you taken this advice? Do you or does anyone you know have access
to the secret accounts of black operations then? And even on the crudest
level we can guess at, can you offer a rough estimate of the cost of global
aerosol operations, and do you know the basic net income of the pharmas,
and the likely military-industrial projects involved in this, individually
and in total? Can you give us the run down of all pertinent and reasonable
facts and figures relating to your advice here? I personally agree that
ìFollow the Moneyî is an important aspect of all this, but
I have yet to find anyone anywhere who had the practical power to do that
in any detail.***
-
- >>So, I must ask myself immediately if it is because
perhaps I am afraid to believe it. And the answer is: certainly not. I
wouldn't put anything at all past the pharmas, or the Pentagon, or Bushes
et al, including genocide. My problem with believing this is that it does
not seem logical to me on several accounts.
-
- JW - It seems entirely logical if you can imagine just
how evil and insidious are the dark, greedy, and controling forces at work
on this planet.
-
- DH - **No, it doesnít necessarily follow logically,
and that is exactly the point I am trying to make. Just because something
could potentially be happening is not a logical argument that it actually
is proven to be happening. What can be done is not always what is being
done: sometimes it is, and other times it isnít. We all know that
the forces controlling this planet are as dark and greedy as possible.
It does not follow that we should automatically believe everything we are
told, just because someone we like says so and just because it might possibly
be true. There is often a world of difference between what might be true
and what is true. That is why science is founded on objective data, research,
and evidence. And beyond even this, logic exists in the first place in
order to distinguish between reason and unexamined belief. All I have been
doing here is objecting to a document that makes extraordinary claims while
simultaneously forbidding all possibility of testing or evaluating or in
any way substantiating these claims. **
-
- JW - They are the paramount of greedy humanists
-
- DH ***?****
-
- JW - who will squeeze every last nickle and drop of sweat
and blood from the population as it destroys what it wants to of human
kind.
-
- DH - **I certainly agree with you on this part.**
-
- JW - Consider that these people are told/hypnotized from
the earliest possible age, "You are the kings and queens of the world
and it is you who control it by and for whatever means you deem apprpropriate.
And don't forget to line your pockets when you do ANYTHING!?"
-
- DH - **Yes, thatís right. But this observation
has nothing at all to do with the logic behind my argument for maintaining
a spirit of genuine skepticism in the face of uncorroborated and what many
of us honestly perceive as somewhat unlikely allegations. **
-
- True, anything is possible. I do know that. But this
kind of random culling never was too high on my personal list of likely
explanations, and there is nothing said here which has changed my mind
about that. YET, anyway.
-
- JW -- I agree. We only have a good source in Clifford
vouching for the source of the claims.
-
- DH - **It is precisely because Clifford has always stood
for the processes of experiment, research and reason that some of us find
this particular lump of unsupported material unpalatable. As is, the form
of this presentation disregards all he stands for, and it disregards other
rational peopleís intelligence processes as well. He has been doing
heroic things for a very long time, and that is a fact. But many of us
had the exact same response to this particular message, which was to find
it a departure from his long and honorable career as a votary of rational
presentation. If this material really does rest somehow, somewhere, on
the truth, that truth MUST be supported by something other than a flat
case of hearsay, no matter who says it. **
-
- By all means, please present something resembling a more
coherent rationale which makes some sense if we are to entertain this concept.
-
- JW -- The rational is the usual evil intentions that
have been operating here for eons. Greed, power, world control, ?survival
of the fittest,? decided by those who deem themselves the ?fittest,? in
their opinion. Didn?t ?god? or somebody select a certain age and gender
for extinction somewhere in history? Great examples set in that ol' bible
huh? Why not eliminate a few intelligent races that drive wasteful polluting,
profitable until death SUV?s and own guns? Or just most of the population
of the most populated country on earth for starters? These evil people
are playing 'god' aren?t they?
-
- DH - **Once again you are ignoring the extremely one-pointed
argument I am setting forth. The message relates to a specific process,
involving specific personnel and making a very large claim for itself.
I do not dispute that perhaps this claim might happen to be true. I am
however expressing my dissatisfaction with being presented with material
in the form of obscure revelation, which is unable to be verified by anyone
else in any respect. **
-
- If we look at the general trend of the military-industrial-political-etcetera
complex over the last fifty years, it is clearly toward ever more specific,
detailed and *micromanaged* control of human beings.
-
- JW - This is not their exculsive form of control.
-
- DH -**I didn't say it was.**
-
- JW - Fluoride is one of the first steps they took in
their insidious mass hypnosis, drugging, and profitable poisoning efforts.
The strategy is like a hydra coming at us from many directions. The sky
included now.
-
- DH - **I agree with this general assessment.**
-
- JW - They certainly are micro managing the public's response
to the 'trails' and what the mainstream, controled by the same people,
press might say about the 'con'-trails. The object of the mass hypnosis
is to deny realty.
-
- DH - **Yes, it is.**
-
- JW - Ever read the study of how easy it is for 4 people
to get one to deny the reality of what they see right before their own
eyes? Most Psych 101 classes review a study of how when one unknowing person
is told by four others in attendance that one of four lines drawn on a
board, that is clearly not the longest of the lines, 'is the longest' As
each of the four other peers say, "That one is the longest,"
the last subject will deny what is right before his eyes and agree when
another line is clearly longer. This is the force of opinions.
-
- DH - **Yes, indeed: and one may also point to precisely
the very item I am debating about here as a good example of just this kind
of thing. We are being asked to ignore our own subjective reasoning, and
simply believe what someone else is saying, merely because they are saying
it. **
-
|