- Would appreciate your take on the following:
- I have a trusted friend who is less favorably disposed
toward Islam/Muslims than I, but he also does not have a good opinion of
- He has had occasion to interview a number of teenaged
American Muslims, the vast majority of whom say they would willingly become
suicide bombers in Israel, but nowhere else. When he presses them (suggesting
optional targets) they say they would first choose Israeli military or
government targets, but if those were not accessible, would target civilians.
- Granted, these are teenagers, but.......?
- LSJohnthanks for bringing the question to our attention
and seeking answers from Muslims. This is a lot better attitude to take
than the 'know-it-alls' who seem to know Muslims and their religion better
than Muslims themselves. I wish the world would follow your example.
- Most American Muslim teenagers that I know are not really
knowledgeable about the Palestinian Israeli situation. This is especially
true in the US with some of them, just by lazy osmosis, having bought into
the media spin hook, line and sinker. I am not accusing your friend of
lying but I find the responses he claimed to have gotten very difficult
- The response is flawed from a Muslim perspective and
is very far from Muslim thinking. The numerous statements in the Qur'an
against injustice and the example of the Prophet on numerous occasions
where he admonished his followers about taking the lives of innocents and
even destroying heedlessly plants and animals are too prevalent in Muslim
learning for the idea of killing civilians to be even casually accepted.
An example of how the Prophet (saaw) dealt with his enemies can shed light
on the correct Muslim attitude. There was an incident during one of the
battles where children of the enemy were killed by mistake. The Prophet
(saaw) was observed with tears in his eyes, in pain because of the killing
of innocent children, and also for the death of all the combatants. Some
of his followers tried to sooth the Prophet by saying, "They were
only the children of Kafirs" The Prophet (saaw) turned to the one
who spoke, and he was visibly angry, and said, " Aren't you the child
of a Kafir too?"
- For suicide to even be considered against military or
even civilian positions as a way of fighting from American Muslim teenagers
is really a stretch. Without going into too many details the prohibition
in Islam against suicide is very strong. But to read and listen to this
world's media broadcast about Islam, we would never know that. We are led
to believe that a religion, whose holy book, the Qur'an, commands the following
regarding suicide, is the fertile ground for the most suicides in the world:
- But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual
good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily God hath been to
you Most Merciful!
- If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall
We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God.
- Qur'an 4:29 - 4:30
- The references above in chapter 4 and other places in
the Qur'an, commands Muslims to not kill themselves and warns of severe
punishments. Suicide is strictly forbidden along with the killing of innocents
in Islam. G-d is the author of life and it is only He who could take life
or tell human beings what conditions a life should be taken under as in
punishment for murder, etc. As human beings we don't own our lives, G-d
does! As such we don't have the authority to take it. Suicide is disrespecting
G-d and being ungrateful for the life he has given us. Also from the Hadiths:
- Quote:The Prophet said, "The ink of the scholar
is holier than the blood of the martyr."
- If knowledge shared by a scholar is considered greater
and closer to G-d than a person dying in war for a just cause, how much
further down the scale in value is suicide in Islam, especially when it
is condemned by the highest authority in our religion? If suicide was permitted
there would be many examples of the Prophet (saaw) encouraging it and Muslim
history would have been replenished with suicide as a technique in war.
But there is no such history and no such encouragement even throughout
the centuries in the Abyssinian Empire, Ottoman Empire, Muslim Spain, Persia,
the well documented Crusades, etc.
- It seems that while strongly condemning suicide, somehow
Islam is the best promoter of it. All of a sudden we have disobedient Muslims
hatching like crazy all over Iraq and Palestine. Oddly, they did not become
so disobedient until they came in contact with Israelis. I guess there
must have been something about Jews that caused Muslims to employ a method
of fighting that their Qur'an strongly condemned, the examples of the Prophet
(saaw) and all pious Muslims in the history of Islam did not endorse, their
own will to live resisted and looking at the gains versus the cost, really
was not worth it. At the same time we have a Media that is too eager to
enlighten and spread the word about those crazy Muslims killing themselves
for 72 virgins. This, by the way, is not even in the Qur'an. Smells fishy?
It should, because it is all pure BS! I quote the following from Impatient
who makes this point even clearer:
- Islam has been around for 1400 years. Is suicide a religio-cultural
tradition? Looking only at history in the last 150 years can you point
to suicide as a method of fighting the enemy? The French experience with
Muslim terrorists in Algeria had its bombers, but no suicide bombers. The
English experience in fighting the Arabs in 1918 in Iraq was fierce, but
no suicide bombers. Israel has been fighting the Palestinians since 1948,
where are the Muslim suicide bombers in those years between 1948 and 1985?
If it were a religious predilection it would not have made a sudden appearance
in Israel within the last twenty years. Islam is a worldwide religion,
fighting battles in places far from the Palestinian conflict before
1985 where were the Muslim suicide bombers outside of Israel?
- Myth of the suicide bomber
- To answer your question in a nutshell: If indeed those
were the answers given by Muslim teenagers they were answers influenced
more by Western thought or distortion of Islam than true Islamic teachings.
The concept of killing innocents and suicide are both strongly condemned
and there is no basis for justification of either in the religion of Islam!
- But who are really doing the suicide bombings since there
is justification to show that Muslims are not the most likely candidates?
Cyte answers the question with a question and also adds in some common
- The question remains as to whether we have anything more
than fiction and talk. A better question would be: Do you know anyone whose
relative "suicided" themselves and the Palestinian investigators
worked with the civilians and they all agreed that the clear evidence showed
that it was suicide?
- No Muslim I know has ever met a terrorist or heard of
someone who did, let alone a suicide bomber. It is all composite fiction.
- Shock and Awe in London
- I am sure if Muslims today asks the questions stated
above, they would come to the same answers. No Muslim they know has terrorist
aspirations nor suicide aspirations! As a convert (we prefer to say revert)
to Islam for more than 30 years, I have never met any terrorist, suicide
prone Muslims. This is as a result of experiencing Muslims both in the
US and in the Middle East. I am sure that the more than 1.5 billion Muslims
would tell you the same. So where are all these terrorists and suicide
Muslims that the media is telling us about coming from?
- It is a sick and despicable mind that feels that it has
a right to attack, steal, murder and cause harm to others but if the others
dare fight back they are wrong and therefore terrorists. This one sentence
describes Israeli thinking and their policies. They believe they are superior
and entitled and they have a right to do anything to other people and those
people better not retaliate. As a result they have done more by way of
propaganda to take the legitimate fight of those who are against their
wrongs and demonize them. We now have this ongoing enormous propaganda
campaign to make Palestinians and anyone belonging to the same religion
as Palestinians, to be seen as mindless terrorists and suicide bombers
with no cause other than to do evil. Their propaganda is so powerful that
they have even gotten some foolish Muslims to buy into it.
- Continuing with the question about who is really doing
the suicide bombings, Impatient writes:
- Suicide is absolutely unnatural; it is an aberration
in creatures whose instinct is to survive. It is not easy to override that
instinct. It is so contrary to instinct that stories of suicide for a cause
are few and always make us marvel: the samurai who falls on his sword as
penance for a loss in battle, the kamikaze pilot who knows he goes to certain
death, the Roman who prefers death by his own hand to the humiliation of
being killed by his enemies. There have been Christian and Buddhist martyrs
who use suicide as a demonstration of belief and/or protest. All these
are distinct from the unwilling martyrdom of dying in conflict.
- The fact that suicide for a cause is so exceptional in
our history is one thing that makes me question the burgeoning phenomenon
of the "Muslim suicide bomber". The Japanese Kamikaze pilot is
understandable as a cultural phenomenon with roots in the concept of the
samurai, but again, this is so exceptional that we look in awe on those
whose sense of duty is so strong. Can we find a similar antecedent for
this peculiar type of martyrdom among Muslims in these last fourteen centuries,
keeping in mind the difference between dying in battle and an intentional
suicide? I don't think so.
- Are there any other instances of intentional martyrdom
in all our history that have been met with such cruel derision and mockery
as the "Muslim suicide bomber" of our time? Doesn't such a reaction
by itself make this case extraordinary?
- That suicide for a cause is anti-instinctual, exceedingly
rare, and when found, traceable to its cultural antecedents, makes me very
skeptical that hundreds, perhaps thousands, of such cases would spring
forth quite suddenly in a people, no matter what the provocation.
- I do not believe that Muslims were involved in 9/11,
but wasn't the notion of the suicide bomber the direct antecedent of the
suicide hijacker? I believe there were no hijackers involved in 9/11. But
for all those who buy the hijacker scenario, the preparation they have
been given to believe that Muslims have no qualms about suicide leads directly
to the conclusion that Muslims must be the culprits.
- Myth of the suicide bomber
- We read and hear daily reports about suicide bombings
in Iraq as if that is endemic to Islam. But at the same time we have already
seen reports coming out stabbing holes in the "theory" that they
were really suicides. Numerous reports detailing how bombs were planted
by the occupational forces in car vehicles, soldiers enticing Iraqi children
with candy and then immediately rushing out of the area after setting off
bombs, trucks used by Iraqis to carry fruits and vegetables stopped at
check points only to have bombs stuck in their barrels by soldiers, Mossad
agents carrying out fake suicide bombings, Israelis wiring retarded Palestinian
boy for remote detonation to be labeled a suicide bombing, etc. If these
incidents were not found to be what they were our too compliant media would
have reported them as suicide killings. To backup these claims I am including
links to published articles presenting these reports:
- Who Murdered 32 Iraqi Children? (Truth Comes Out)
- Occupation forces CAUGHT placing bombs in unsuspecting
vehicles in Iraq
- U.S. forces behind deadly children bomb
- The case of the retarded 14 yr. old suicide bomber wired
- 2 religious soldiers believed behind J'lem fake bomb
- Mossad bombs kill 34 children
- Israeli bus bombings
- LONDON BOMBINGS MOSSAD FALSE FLAG ATTACK SOLVED
(for these links see original post)
- There are obvious benefits gained by perpetuating the
myth of the Islamic suicide bomber. Those benefits serve nicely with those
who are enemies of Islam. As in the recent case in London, it perpetuates
the propaganda that seeming innocent and decent Muslims are dangerous and
prone to suicide. In this day and age of open season attacks against Islam
for war purposes, many benefits can be gained from the myth of the Islamic
suicide bomber. Impatient lists the benefits as follows:
- To demonize Islam
- To make Muslims look stupid, fanatical, and murderous.
- To create worldwide terrorism that they can claim has
nothing to do with Israel, but everything to do with Islam.
- To attack those who think themselves to be allies, but
are not, e.g. America, Spain, Britain.
- To shift the blame for any bombing Zionists perpetrate
onto the Muslims, simply by calling it a suicide bombing.
- To control public opinion in favor of Israel as the most
grieved victim of terrorism.
- To justify apartheid in Israel.
- To justify war in the Middle East with the spoils of
war accruing to themselves, while the costs are borne by their "allies".
- So it's not the fundamentalism, it's not the occupation,
it's not suicide, it's not a guerilla tactic, it's the timeless strategy
of the Jews working to advantage themselves on their journey toward dominion.
- Myth of the suicide bomber
- What I wrote about Islam's position on suicide and killing
of innocents is not secret, esoteric knowledge. It is common knowledge
well known and can easily be discerned by anyone doing a very elementary
study of the religion. Yet what we have today is the knee jerk, unconscious
association of the religion of Islam with suicide bombings. Even to the
point where claims of getting 72 virgins are an Islamic prize offered for
suicide. This is a cruel and ugly lie about Islam that has been so widely
perpetuated that it is accepted as fact. Corrections to the association
of Islam with suicide and the killing of innocents are not made in the
media. Instead it is glued even tighter by reporting that not a person
disobeying Islam, but a Muslim imbued with Islamic religious fervor committed
- I have to smile at how the media even reported the London
bombings. They have made Islam to be so tightly wound up as a major factor
that writers boldly wrote about how the 4 men became more religious and
how unlike rule #2 for how to commit suicide bombings, they did not say,
"Allah-u-Akbar". The subliminal message is that becoming more
involved with Islam is the cause for suicide bombings and it is expected
for the suicide bomber to invoke Allah's name in this act. If he doesn't
then something is wrong.
- By using a prefix or suffix that ties these acts to the
religion of Islam, although it is well known that the religion of Islam
strongly condemns those actions, an ugly method of religious demonization
is employed. If we were to report Judaism's Bugsy Siegel and Catholic Lucky
Luciano as an example when they commit crimes, then the suffix used with
their names is tied into the crime as well. Subliminally the association
is made as the association is made today with so many in the Western world
with Islam to terrorism, suicide, etc. BTW...I wrote a satire titled, Judaism's
Bugsy Siegel and Mayer Lansky Kills Innocent Children! to illustrate this
- The ones who control the media allowing the false and
dangerous propaganda to be spewed are to blame. We need to find out who
they are. That is easy because it has been done by many. Here are two references
that will help identify them:
- "There are no important media outlets in the US
that are not owned or controlled by Jews." - Israel Shamir
- "One is inevitably led to believe that the success
of the Jews has not been a mere coincidence. It resulted from long and
arduous years of planning, which preceded their cunning control of the
world's media. In a speech delivered in Prague in 1869, the Jewish Rabbi
Yeshurun expressed this Jewish interest in the media, when he said: 'If
gold is our first means to control the world, then the press should be
our second one.'
- "The first [Zionist] Congress, held in Basle in
1897, marked an ominous turning point, because the participants expressed
their [desire] to implement a criminal plot to set up the State of 'Israel'.
They unanimously agreed that, unless complete control over the media, and
the press in particular, is achieved, unless they fully subdue the press,
so as to deny their enemies even one medium of __expression, and unless
they themselves act as filters of information in society, such a state
[Israel] would not reach fruition."
- What got my attention the most about the above declarations
is the following statement: "unless they fully subdue the press, so
as to deny their enemies even one medium of __expression". Anyone
doing careful analysis of events and reading the news stories broadcasted
would probably come to different conclusions. Along with that, a historical
presentation showing true causes and effects for events in the world will
give readers more understanding and even turn some of today's perceived
demons into heroes. But the other perspectives are not allowed. The side
of those who are victims of Jews is never presented and those victims are
shown by the lying media to be senseless animals that kill mercilessly
for no reason. Of course their poor innocent victims are Israelis especially
from suicide bombers. It started with the poor Israelis and now those evil
terrorists are bringing their evil to the whole world. The ridiculousness
of the obvious Israeli fake stories about suicide bombers is pointed out
by this excellent link provided by Laconas:
- Quote: SUICIDE BOMBER MIRACLES
- Typically, stories about suicide bombers tell us that
the bomber went to a public place such as a bus stop, market, restaurant,
pool hall, etc., and blew himself/herself up along with one, two, or many
- Funny, they rarely hit military targets. I wonder why?
- The general story line is that the bomber had explosives
attached to his/her person. The story goes on to describe the carnage in
grisly detail - dismembered bodies, etc. But, remarkably, the suicide bomber
himself/herself is not blown to smithereens. The bomber's body is left
in sufficiently good shape to be identified immediately, and of course
the Israeli authorities do just that.
- But even more remarkable: The Israelis come up with these
nice portraits of the culprits. And what is most remarkable of all? Everything
is coordinated, bombers ID'd, photos gathered, stories written - and published
all over the world by the Zionist press - within a few hours or days after
- Well we know who controls the media that is perpetuating
the vicious lies about Islamic suicide bombers. They have a vested interest
and the benefits are real and measurable for them as pointed out above.
But what should be done by those who have this information and are against
them? I don't know about non-Muslims but for Muslims the guidance is clear.
Our Qur'an tells us in no uncertain terms what is stated below. Isn't it
about time that we start following this guidance instead of believing the
myths deliberately perpetuated by our enemies?
- 49.006. O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to
you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly,
and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
- Let's ascertain the truth and when the truth become known
let's do all within our power to disseminate it! When this is done all
of us will have a firm basis by which to take definite actions.
- Ansar writes: "Although the above essay goes into
much, much more than my initial answer to LSJohn for his question, I thank
LSJohn for asking it. I thank Laconas for pointing me to that invaluable
link showing how truly rediculous the suicide bombing reports are. I also
thank Cyte for compiling the information and providing his comments in
this historic thread: Myth of the suicide bomber. Lastly I thank Impatient
for his keen, insightful depth of analysis that has really provided powerful
truths to truly debunk the Islamic suicide bomber myth. To me this is essential
because if properly understood as presented in the essay above, it will
take away a major excuse for past, current and future Israeli false flag
operations. Hopefully people will start looking for the real culprits and
not be fooled into falling for patsies.